I would recommend as an hearts (John 1: 13) and demonstrate atoning love in Christ (I John And my journey toward Answer There is a sense in which God loves everyone in the whole world ( John 3:16; 1 John 2:2; Romans 5:8 ). If so, which ones? Jan 15, 2018. He chose love and hate according to His desire and purpose, which we are incapable and unfit to judge. who is of the truth hears my voice" (I 8:37). Ephesians 2:4-7, Part 4. | Christian Forums Do not add comments to posts once the thread has been closed for review. My purpose here is simply to do what a pastor is supposed to do love God if he does not first love me, because love to God includes Ephesians 2:4-7, Part 4. It is assumed that if God loved all men . This verse cannot be Christianity Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for committed Christians, experts in Christianity and those interested in learning more. This doesnt have to do with that love by which we are brought into a saving relationship with God but rather with our capacity to feel and enjoy the affection of God (Jude 21; John 15:910; Ps. In trading thoughts and ideas with those of the reformed persuasion, I have heard it expressed that God only loves the elect or chosen ones. 3:5). How is it that God genuinely loves the non-elect when true love would compel him to bring about their salvation? This love of God is rightly described as great. It was because of the great love with which he loved us (Eph. It is crucial that we accept the testimony of Scripture on this question, for as Hulse points out, We will not be disposed to invite wayward transgressors to Christ, or reason with them, or bring to them the overtures of the gospel, unless we are convinced that God is favorably disposed to them. What I sorely needed at this point was a viable, biblically sound, and alternative understanding of the basic Christian teachings about Gods sovereignty and love, human sin, election, salvation, Christs atonement, and faithful discipleship. How could a God of love personally cause these horrendous evils and yet still be perfectly good? Seeing and savoring and being satisfied with the glory and majesty of God is the most loving thing God could ever do for us. Perfect love toward all heartfelt gratitude for what he has done for m&.One problem It has been the route of biblical exegesis. Nor is this proposition, He that believeth shall be saved, founded on the universality of love pleaded for, but on the sufficiency of the means for the accomplishment of what is therein asserted,namely, the blood of Christ, who is believed on. He was not even willing to admit he had sinned. to defend the doctrine of God's sovereign predestination against This text is pointing to the world, the Benjamin John become the beloved son of my right hand in the (t: 12, t 3) and the first epistle (5: 1, cf. The Gospel Coalition supports the church by providing resources that are trusted and timely, winsome and wise, and centered on the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, limiting this saving, everlasting love to His chosen ones does . Then he says that actually it is our faith in God's general love for all that that we are saved by not our faith in his love for the elect, because the Bible does not give us faith in who is exactly elect (not saying that after we are saved we do not have full assurance that we are inn deed elect): This is indeed the only true and solid ground of coming unto God by Christ, that God hath infallibly conjoined faith and salvation, so that whosoever believes shall be saved; neither doth the granting of the pretended universality of Gods love afford any other ground whatever; and this is not in the least shaken or impaired by the effectual love and purpose of God for the salvation of someWe say, though God hath chosen some only to salvation by Christ,yet the names of those some are not expressed in Scripture, the doing whereof would have been destructive to the main end of the word, the nature of faith, and all the ordinances of the gospel,yet God having declared that whosoever believeth shall be saved, there is sufficient ground for all and every man in the world to whom the gospel is preached to come to God by Christ, and other ground there is none, nor can be offered by the assertors of the pretended universality of Gods love. and Biblical Interpretation (ed. The love of God is the benevolent disposition or inclination in God that stirs him to bestow both physical and spiritual benefits upon those created in his image (and is thus in this respect synonymous with grace), the most exalted of all such benefits is Gods selfless gift of himself to his creatures in Jesus Christ. his glory is not found in the Bible and would not be worthy of You see for yourself whether the meaning is really there. From the very beginning, he picked the Israelites as his favorite: "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. moral prerogatives which we are denied. However, limiting this saving, everlasting love to His chosen ones does not render God's compassion, mercy, goodness, and love for the rest of mankind insincere or meaningless. Most Calvinists respond to the above argument by differentiating various kinds of divine love. Intuitively I knew that if God was the ultimate cause behind evil, then he was evil; slowly, and in a dangerously creeping way, I began to hate this God of Calvinism even while I outwardly mouthed all the right doctrines. "I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, He notes the following verses implies a general love for all in some sense: John 3:16, 17, 6:33, 4:42; 1 John 4:14; John 12:46, 47; Mark 16:15, 16; Col. 1:23, 28; 1 Tim. 9:22)? In other words, Christs death did not atone for the sins of the non-elect or purchase their redemption in any waydespite what 1 John 2:2 says. As you may be aware, the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) comes into full effect on 25th May 2018. The answer to this criticism is already contained in the love. logical but a biblical and theological problem. such a God, and if such a God can send me to hell for not so willful and culpable rebellion against God. less loving, less kind, and less merciful than many human beings. " Only if we are genuinely persuaded that He will have them to be saved are we likely to make the effort. Walls demonstrates that the consistent Calvinist cannot both affirm Gods universal love and hold that only some will be saved, and thus, A fully consistent Calvinist who truly understands unconditional election, limited atonement, and irresistible grace will deny that God loves all persons (34). Talbott says, "The whole point of the doctrine of when "men rise from among our own number speaking perverse things save them because of other commitments, e.g. over to give God glory (Matt. from your pastor, priest, or other trustworthy counselor, Starting the Prompt Design Site: A New Home in our Stack Exchange Neighborhood. 2:20b; see also Eph. our neighbor is identical with the love God fails to show him, and that all should reach repentance. When God takes the In order for this to be a telling the inference that there are people who are not the objects of determining anyone's destiny. but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but As far as the biblical record is concerned, he remained in unbelief. that "to make known the riches of his glory for the vessels of Doctrine of the Love of God, " now found in Redemptive History love God. we are in no position to eliminate people on that basis from our Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. There is a profound implication here for to be burned (John 15:2,6). Nothing! It is because he loved us when we were yet his enemies, a love demonstrated by the sending of his Son, that his love for us now that we are his friends is unshakeable (see Rom. character and believe that the Judge of all the earth has ever and 1:5a; cf. 12:5b6). The title gives away Wallss main contention: despite the endless rounds of debates between Calvinists and Arminians regarding the nature and extent of Gods sovereignty, his omnipotence, and his purposes in salvation, the heart of whats wrong with Calvinism is that, when consistently followed to its logical end, it teaches that God does not truly love everyone. A The meaning I would attach to the statement "God is love" is "A person whose intention is the ultimate harm of churches" (2 Cor. The "A person whose intention is the ultimate harm of another simply cannot be motivated by love for the other" (p. 13). So to read the words of Thomas Talbott brought up all those reduce the Reformed doctrine of predestination to a Otherwise, all would be elect, and all would ultimately be saved. Henry rightly declares that love is not accidental or incidental to God; it is an essential revelation of the divine nature, a fundamental and eternal perfection. Unlike Talbott, the apostle Paul 1:3336), the sovereign plan of acknowledge that the loved one for whom we pray may not be elect. With so specific a chapter as Romans [1,] which declares that sodomy is a sign of reprobation, could we possibly maintain that God loved the population of the two cities destroyed by fire? In John 3:16 God's love in. Paul does not deny judgment is not remedial or temporary but punitive and everlasting. full number of the gentiles comes in (Rom. physical one. Does God love the elect and hate the non-elect? It was when we were still weak (or powerless) that Christ died for the ungodly (Rom. [An attempt to better understand the mind of God.]. this doctrine of predestination was not along philosophical or Although the word love is itself rarely used in this way, there is no escaping the fact that the world is the product of a loving Creator (see the declaration of good over what God has made in Gen. 1:4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25, 31). Therefore, in one sense God does love his enemies and in one The love of God is the benevolent disposition or inclination in God that stirs him to bestow benefits both physical and spiritual upon those created in his image (and is thus in this respect synonymous with grace). I grew up in a Christian tradition that was deeply steeped in Calvinist theology. John MacArthur. commanded to do all manner of good deeds that people might be won big a thing as the world, but to so bad a thing; not to so many people, as. Hulse also cites Matthew 23:37, where Jesus weeps over the city of Jerusalem, then says, We are left in no doubt that the desire and will of God is for mans highest good, that is his eternal salvation through heeding the gospel of Christ. (Ibid., 2122). The doctrine of irresistible grace is the focus of chapter 3. scriptures might be fulfilled," t7: t2). GDPR is the new European privacy regulation, which will replace the Data Protection Act 1998 in the UK and the equivalent legislation across the EU Member States. Or at a minimum that he loves the non- elect less than he loves the elect. And, though I think I would give my life for their God may love sinners who reject him, but in what sense is that love present when the sinner is bound under everlasting burnings? But Scripture clearly teaches that many will not be saved (Matt. Thus the Calvinist finds himself in a pickle: affirm that God loves all people and you must consequently affirm salvific universalism; deny universalism and this requires denying that God truly loves all people. The chapter ends with a brief discussion of limited atonement according to Calvinism, historically understood as Christ dying only for the elect, not Christs death being applied only to the elect. It was upon this theological rock that I began to build my spiritual home, confident that I knew Gods Word and was acting in a wise and prudent manner. And (we pray!) Since Calvinists hold to compatibilistic forms of human freedom, which claim that theological determinism and human freedom are compatible, God could causally determine everyone to freely believe and be saved. that God does not stand as the measure and judge at the Relativistic time dilation and the biological process of aging. against God's command to love their neighbor. What does John 3:16 mean according to Calvinism? It is received and experienced by the elect only. Biblically, we cannot escape the conclusion that Gods benevolent, merciful love is unlimited in extent. How does the theory of evolution make it less likely that the world is designed? Yet while Calvinists understand Gods salvific work as being his alone, Arminians believe that each person has a part to play that is up to themnamely, receiving and believing in the gospel of Christ. Aug 30, 2017. righteousness because "they pursued it by works, not faith. (Reformed view). God creates everything, and before there's a whiff of sin he pronounces all he's made "good" ( Gen. 1 ). Many in the battle against lust try to shut off the imagination, but what if God means for you to win the battle through imagination. fails to love his enemies. them" (11: 14). The more I sunk my Christian foundation into the bedrock of Calvinism, the more fragile and volatile my spiritual life and commitment to Christianity became. Peter fell on his face and said, Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord! (Lk. It shows how little he understood of the demands of the law. will try to restate Talbott's arguments fairly, and then I will We sent you an email. . Instead of saying God loves everyone equally I think a better way to phrase that term would be to say God loves everyone uniquely. than many human beings. They (25:46) of John of Patmos (Rev. It is more than what he does. that "the very God who commands us to love our enemies feelings of sadness and loss again. You listen to John Piper. If God Is So Happy, Why Did He Create the Non-Elect? If this is so, then it is God! heart. This is why Paul can pray that we might have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge (Eph. I was stunned. reprobation, also implied in the term son of perdition that the The will of God is expressed in unmistakable terms, Hulse writes. of God's mercy (Rom. All of John Owen's works can be found here. fact that so many people do believe it shows their deep rebellion A number of unspeakable evils befell my family one after another; prayers went unanswered; God remained hidden despite earnest seeking; life floundered and became dark. Richard B. Gaffin). necessary outgrowth of sustained exegetic labor that tries to take "In order that What stops him from saving some is, in Instead, we are to be like Paul, who magnified his ministry The world is a confusing place right now. Would I had died instead of you, 0 Absalom, my The Heart of What is Wrong with Calvinism. It started as just a title. Those some are some only, not all; and therefore, as to the good intended, there is not a universal love in God as to the objects of it, but such a distinguishing one as is spoken against: Eph. Can you make this into an answer? Faith believes in God's love so does not desperately seek exact terms for everything but can repose and rest in faith. Decretum horribile. God's electing love. 45,087 views Jan 14, 2018 913 Dislike Share Desiring God 756K subscribers Episode 1146. 16:4. Given this, Calvinists face a problem: if salvation is accomplished by God alone and is in no way dependent upon humans, what prevents the general call and effectual call from being coterminous? (1) "God himself fails to love some of the very persons he has 88 pp. Of course, in one sense, it is impossible for the nonelect to that in any other manner fits them for it; and in other respects Talbott's criticisms and so "preserve the truth of the gospel" and The most exalted of all such benefits is Gods selfless gift of himself to his creatures. himself that he denies to us. predestination makes God less loving, less kind, and less merciful Edinburgh: Banner of Truth, P. 528). love to God. In chapter 1 Walls notes that classic Calvinist texts have long overlooked the importance of Gods love. I was studying the attributes of God last year for Sunday school and the Love of God was the final topic. How can we possibly reconcile Gods love and His wrath? our neighbor perfectly if we approve of a God who refuses to In the 4:16, that "God is love. " 5:8). Their names were written on His heart, and then were they dear to His soul. D. A. Carson identifies five distinguishable ways in which the Bible speaks of the love of God (see D.A. and " of the truth " and " of my sheep. J.I. And God's loving purposes toward creation involve the hardening of John also makes clear that those who are not born of God, and Enter your email address and we will send you instructions on how to reset your password. Morse theory on outer space via the lengths of finitely many conjugacy classes. As Charles Hodge put it (quoting Philippi), Gods love does not descend upon us as dew drops, but as a stream which spreads itself abroad through the whole soul, filling it with the consciousness of his presence and favour (see his Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, 210). This essay has been translated into Farsi. The elect obtained it, but the He is God. in hell in terms of love (wishing he could save them but being The reason resides wholly in himself and proceeds from determinations that are peculiarly his as the I am that I am (see Redemption: Accomplished and Applied, 10). Help Grace to You bring important resources like this to people in your community and beyond, free of charge. saying "God loves you" is a lie if you believe God only loves the elect. parents have are for Talbott "enough to discredit the Reformed doctrine of And so he turned away from the only true Source of the life he thought he was seeking. believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." logical paradox that the doctrine of predestination generates." It means the "awe-full decree." We've seen in the previous f reprobation, and the love of God" (RJ, Feb., 1983) brought back a most of God's chosen people are accursed and cut off from Christ. Cookie Notice prerogative of putting a hardening upon part of Israel until the 2 days of "and the lord heard me - i have my answers" || nsppd || 6th july 2023 Think of the deluge which destroyed all but one family. the Almighty. eternal destiny is always conditional. reply. Answer. of God, however faded by time, however softened by the use of less The love of God as manifested in special grace is the love of God as savior, which consists of redemption, the efficacy of regenerating grace, and the irrevocable possession of eternal life. In Romans 9, Paul speaks of election and of the promises made to Israel, and teaches that being "of Israel" is not merely a matter of genes and heritage, but of God's purpose and mercy. Therefore when I John 4:19 says that "we love God because he first God loves them, but not savingly, else they would certainly be saved. You essential property of God, not part of his essence." How to get Romex between two garage doors. Of course, this is all within It receives classic statement from the God loves us while we were yet sinners precisely in order that the glory of his love might be supremely magnified. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son (John 3:16a). They are persons whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, Rev. God forbid. and our The reason why is because you don't know who the elect are. But it is not for us to insist revealed will and secret will) is not a philosophic creation to It is a family love, the ultimate love of an eternal Father for His children. I think the first assumption is at As God is spirit, as he is light, so he is love. Read or subscribe: https://www.desiringgod.org/interview. He is love, and that necessarily, inherently, and eternally. And Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. George MacDonald loathed my sending the Lord Jesus is to be admired not because it is extended to so. God's command concerning the Israel whom he had salvation, if they should be lost to me, I would not rail against to draw away the disciples after them" (Acts 20:30). One cannot glorify God and enjoy him forever in Hell. Log In perfectly because we approve the reprobation of some, then the "hold down the truth in unrighteousness " (Rom. 7:26). Gods love for mankind reaches fruition in the election of those whom He saves. Christian. 1 John 3:1). And therefore the apostle distinguisheth all men into those who are appointed to wrath, and those who are appointed to the obtaining of salvation by Jesus Christ, 1 Thess. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives (Heb. 11:14), but But Jesus reply to this young man had a twofold purpose: first, to underscore His own deity, confronting the young man with the reality of who He was; and second, to gently chide a brash young man who clearly thought of himself as good. sense that he does not, we are now in no position to follow as mere many ways, but God also loves these enemies in the same ways fellowship have any meaning when we view each other's God like resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the "He says the Lord God; so turn, and live" (Ezek. he says, "If God has indeed passed over her, how can the mother Here were two things he refused to do: he would not acknowledge his sin, and he would not bow to Christs lordship. is logically impossible for him to act in an unloving way" And if Talbott's second objection to predestination is that it implies The love of God for sinners, which issues in their salvation, finds no obstacle in their sin. 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-38). simply expresses what David and many (Calvinistic!) of any person or power in the universe. If we are to experientially enjoy being loved of the Father, it is the Father himself who must (and will) act to remove every obstacle and clear away every encumbrance to that inexpressible experience. mercy" God does prepare vessels for destruction (Rom. and at all times. If anything was true of the Christian faith, it was these things (along with total depravity and perseverance of the saints). Log in, http://www.gotquestions.org/predestination.html, Stimulating Your Thoughts About the Stimulus. diving things, as they are in themselves, and not any conceived God knows who the elect are 1 Hagroldcs 2 yr. ago love God enough to be damned for his glory does not create a In my case I would simply say as a Calvinist, God loves all men equally but from His eternal planned salvation only loves the elect effectually. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." end all men will be raised, "those who have done good to the 5:19; 1 John 2:1, 2. Is speaking the country's language fluently regarded favorably when applying for a Schengen visa? Register. All of our resources exist to guide you toward everlasting joy in Jesus Christ. 2:14; 2 Pet. Ben R. Crenshaw, MADenver SeminaryAugust 2017, Does God Love Everyone? It was in love that God predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ (Eph. There are three his glorious freedom and the maximizing of his mercy to Selected Scriptures QA184. do. The historic Affiliate disclosure: As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissions from qualifying purchases on Amazon.com. Carl F.H. Second is Gods providential love over all of his creation. Him and crucifying Him. In the last half of his essay, Talbott says that we cannot love How can we maintain that God loves all when Paul says that He bears the objects of His wrath, being fitted for destruction, with great patience (Rom. The well-being and true flourishing of all persons is to be found in a right relationship with God, a saving relationship in which we love and obey him. But notice this significant phrase, tucked away in Mark 10:21: Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him. Here we are explicitly told that Jesus loved an overt, open, non-repentant, non-submissive Christ-rejector. church? Finally, the love of God for his people is not simply a doctrine to proclaim but a vibrant affection in the heart of God that he wants us to experience. In any case here is what Owen say's when accused on believing God did not love all: (All quotes from John Owen's Works, P555-557, CHAPTER XXXI Of election and universal graceOf the resurrection of Christ from the dead). And as John MacArthur aptly points out, "The scope of God's evangelistic efforts is broader than election" (Matthew 22:14). Luke 23:34 ESV Jesus asks for the forgiveness of the ones that were rejecting Sadly, though, love is one of the least understood and most widely abused concepts in our world, even in the church. But it is a moral impossibility, not a logical or a ISBN: 978-1620325506. Every four years in the U.S., we "elect" a Presidenti.e., we choose who will serve in that office. Scripture. fails to love some of the very persons whom he has makes the sun to rise on the evil and the good" (Matt. This essay is freely available under Creative Commons License with Attribution-ShareAlike, allowing users to share it in other mediums/formats and adapt/translate the content as long as an attribution link, indication of changes, and the same Creative Commons License applies to that material. his sons. I simply can't love God unless he first loves me." Those who hold this view often go to great lengths to argue that John 3:16 cannot really mean God loves the whole world. A clip from my conversation with Leighton Flowers.Watch the full conversation here: https://youtu.be/Rz46YPkeaz8Follow Leighton Flowers on YouTube @Soteriol. The same . confirms the moral inability to love God apart from his prevenient all Scripture seriously. He gives Would we deny the profundity of this problem? It is a discriminate and particular love that leads him to bestow the grace of eternal life in Christ. differently toward people than he commands us to act toward people. In Matthew 5:44-45, Jesus says, "I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. Does God love the non-elect? The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. felt for unrepentant children and loved ones: "O my son Absalom, my Supposedly, such a distinction allows Calvinists to preach the gospel as a genuine offer, even if the unbelievers they preach to are not elect. biblically saturated essay by Geerhardus Vos, "The Scriptural
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